When is the Rapture?
Last modified 2024-05-07 ....(under construction, changes weekly)................... 36 pages
The answer, in brief is: The Rapture happened when it needed to happen most i.e. in 66AD. When did Gods saints most need to get “snatched away” in history? Answer, in the midst of the Great Tribulation, when Christians were dropping like flies, getting killed by the Jews (who ever-hate “the way” Acts 19:9,23 22:4) and by the Romans under Nero. As Ed Stevens so ably points out in Jesus’ Parable of the Tares (Matt. 13:24-43), the wheat is gathered (raptured) into the barn first (AD 66), and then the tares were burned (AD 70) see https://www.preterist.org/products/parables-of-tares-ten-virgins-3-tracks/.
So When was the Rapture hinges on the question When was the Great Tribulation
Let us examine the Scriptures that apply, and examine what actually happened in history. Just as the Jews could never figure out from the Old Testament Verses, when the messiah would come, and what would be the manner of his coming, because there seemed to be conflicting verses, some pointed to a lamb like messiah that would suffer for his peoples sins, and be killed in an ignoble way, while other verses portrayed a conquering messiah. Because the Jews did not count on two commings of their messiah, the first lamb like, and the second, as a conqueror. So today, most commentators go astray, because they do not recognize that there are two tribulations spoken of in Scripture (Christian and Jewish), and multiple "comings of the Lord". It is a mistake to number the comings of the Lord, because we dont know all of them. So to say "that will be the 2nd coming" is always in error. Jesus is not chained to his chair, seated at the right hand of the Father, since the resurrection, and He can and does come and go back to earth, as He pleases without our even knowing about it. So how can we say "that will be His 2nd coming" or if you are a preterist like me, how can you say "that was His 2nd coming". At any rate, Let us look at some history first, since I will assume all Christians are familiar with the Bible verses.
Roman Historian, Tacitus (56AD - 120 AD) on the Christians:
“But all human efforts, all the lavish gifts of the emperor (Nero) and the propitiations of the gods, did not banish the sinister belief that the conflagration (comment: burning of Rome in 64 AD, 10 out of 14 wards of the city destroyed with hundreds of thousands homeless from a fire that the wind blew out of control for 10 days, causing a HUGE outcry against the emperor) was the result of an order (given by Nero, who reportedly wanted to clear the slums of Rome and build a glorius domus aurea “the golden house” a 1 sq mile palace and grounds with a 98 foot high bronze statue of Nero in its vestibule). Consequently, to get rid of the report (that Nero had the fire started intentionally), Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called “Chrestians” by the populace."
"Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilate, and a most mischievous superstition (comment: that He rose from the dead, and is now LORD OF ALL), thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their center and become popular."
" Accordingly, an arrest was first made of all (Christians) who pleaded guilty (of being Christians); then, upon their information, (who among their family and friends knew about their faith, i.e. aiding and abetting), an immense multitude was convicted, not so much of the crime of firing the city, as of hatred against mankind. comment: how the Romans deduced that Christians had a hatred of mankind is beyond me. Christians are the love thy neighbor as thyself crowd, and do unto others as you would have them do unto you, people. And as far as taxes go, Jesus said "render unto Caesar" But, anyway, continuing on with Tacitus quote. "Mockery of every sort was added to their deaths. Covered with the skins of beasts, they were torn by dogs and perished, or were nailed to crosses, or were doomed to the flames and burnt, to serve as a nightly illumination, when daylight had expired.” Tacitus, Annals, 15.44
If you dont believe that the rapture happened back in 66AD, if you’d rather take the popular, modern pre-mill position, or a-mill position, both of whom place the rapture off in our future, then you make the Apostle Paul out to be a fool. Paul makes the following statement, all the while knowing full well that the Great Tribulation is soon to be upon all his churches. (soon, as in within a decade).
1 Thess 4
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
What? Did Paul say to comfort one another, with the fact that a rapture will happen sometime 2000 years in the future?
How stupid of Paul. I and my fellow Christians are dropping like flies here in 66 AD, from the Jews rebellion against Rome, (Jews are now free to murder Christians at will, without Romes capital punishment trial of protection), and our blood is being poured out like water, from Nero’s empire wide persecution of all Christians, all of which is causing Matt 10:21 to come true:
“Now brother will deliver up brother to death, and a father his child; and children will rise up against parents and cause them to be put to death.”
We here in 66 AD are going thru the GREAT TRIBULATION, of which Jesus said in
Matt 24 9Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. 10And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. 12And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
Of this time, Jesus also said:
Mt 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
And Stupid Paul, says “Oh go ahead and take comfort in the fact that 2000 years from now, God will snatch the Christians away from the earth. “ Just hold on till then, you Christians going through the Jewish persecutions of Christians from 30 to 64 AD (Jesus said in 30 AD Matthew 23:33 Serpents, Brood of Vipers, how shall you escape the sentence of hell, Behold,I am sending you prophets, and wise men, and scribes. Some of them you will kill and some you will crucify, and some U will scourge in your synagogues and persecute from city to city, that on YOU may fall all the righteous blood shed on the earth,
and of even more urgency you Christsians of 66 AD, going through the Great Trib started by Nero in 62-63AD, when he had Apostle John arrested, exiled to Patmos where he wrote the Book of Revelation. Yea, Just take comfort in that rescue that will happen 2000 years too late to be of any help for you.
Stupid Paul. Better to not waste our time, (here in AD 51-66) telling us about a 2000 year old too late rescue.
Which brings up another question, when was Thessalonians written. Let us go with Ed Stevens Chronology.
AD 31-38 ---------- Matthew
AD 38-44 ---------- Mark
AD 51-52 ---------- Galatians
AD 51-52 ---------- 1 Thessalonians
AD 51-52 ---------- 2 Thessalonians
AD 57--------------- 1 Corinthians
AD 57--------------- 2 Corinthians
AD 58--------------- Romans
AD 61--------------- Luke
AD 61-62 ---------- Acts
AD 60-62 ---------- John
AD 61-62 ---------- James
AD 61-62 ---------- 1, 2, 3 John
AD 62-63----------- Revelation
AD 62-63----------- Ephesians
AD 62-63----------- Colossians
AD 62-63----------- Philemon
AD 62-63----------- Philippians
AD 62-63----------- Hebrews
Mid-63 -------------- Titus
Mid-63 -------------- 1 Timothy
Mid-63 -------------- 1 Peter
Late 63 ------------- 2 Timothy
Late 64 ------------- Jude
Late 64 ------------- 2 Peter
But, what if Paul wasn’t talking about 2000 years in the future? What if he knew that the rapture would happen SOON, even sometime prior to 70 AD.
What if the “we which are alive and remain” referred to Pauls’ Contemporaries, of that First Century generation. Not to us today. Then taking comfort in Pauls’ words makes perfect sense.
Likewise, Paul showing me a mystery that is going to take place in my lifetime, even in the next decade or so, is of GREAT interest to me. But it seems like science fiction or a waste of my time, if the “we shall not all sleep” is for Christians 2000 years in the future.
1 Corinthians 15:51-58
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. 55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
Matthew 24:
1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
(actual Greek word here is “aion” should be translated “age”, not “world”. The end of the O.T. “age” is vastly different from what modern Americans think of as the end of the world, yet by translating AION as “world” many a newbie Christian pushes all events of Mt 24 off into their future, when in reality, all of Mt 24 happened prior to 70 AD.
Matt 24:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh (some trannys say “life”) be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
Verse 22 "no life" or "no flesh" would have been saved, can be taken 2 ways. The Arminian will say (see you must persevere in the faith. Christians are expected to be faithful even unto death, it is he who perseveres unto the end that shall be saved ... Thus Jesus knowing that many if not MOST Christians would not be able to bear up under the GREAT TRIBULATION, made sure that that time was "cut short", they got raptured out of there, with their faith intact) So, you could say the rapture did happen “mid trib”. To the Arminian, "no life would have been Saved" here means eternal salvation. IE virtually everyone would have caved into Rome, just to save their earthly lives and given up the faith, and thereby losing their eternal life.
The Calvinist must reject this logic, because he believes in election before the foundation of the world, irrestable grace, and perseverance of the saints (God causes us to persevere, so that our calling and election is made sure). If we are elected to salvation before the foundation of the world, then we can NEVER lose our election, we WILL persevere unto the end, not by our own strength, but by Gods grace. Likewise if we are regenerate, we can never lose our regeneration. But just being in the covenant, i.e. called a Christian, doesn't mean we are either elect or regenerate. Thus we can lose our calling and if you will "apparent salvation" by having our names erased from the book of life.
That means the book of life is not the list of all elect, nor of all regenerate, it is just a list of who is in the covenant at this time. Some will get erased out later on. So, even going thru the GREAT TRIB would not rock the faith of the regenerate. No, "no life would have been saved" here, means virtually all (i.e. most of) the Christians would have physically died as martyrs in the Roman empire. Rome and the Jews would have virtually gotten them all. Evidently Jesus counts it as "saving your life" if you got raptured out of there. This may seem strange to us, when it rather appears as ending your life on earth, but imagine yourself in the Roman Arena, the lions have just been released and they are charging you. You pray "Lord Jesus Save Me". What do you mean by that prayer? Give me eternal salvation? No, you have had that assurance since day 1 when you first got saved (gave your life to Christ). Rather you mean, "save me from the lions". So to the Calvinist, "no flesh (life per some trannys) would have been saved" means no Christians would have been saved from the painful death of the GREAT TRIB. had those days not been cut short.
Now, how can those days be "cut short" if they were prophesied to go on for 7 years, per Daniel 9:27 And he will confirm a covenant with many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put an end to sacrifice and offering...
This is the only way. Let the first half of the GREAT TRIB roll by as predestined and prophesied, but half way into it, after 3 and 1/2 years rapture MOST of the Christians out of there in the middle of that 7 year period. I.E. after a TIME, TIMES AND HALF A TIME.
That would mean during the 2nd half of the GREAT TRIB, almost no Christians were put to death. Everyone who came up before Romes trial, not being a true Christian, would deny the faith and get to live. Which is a sin, and they failed to persevere unto the end, but it does not mean they could not have repented later on in their life and gotten their assurance of salvation back. This was no "unpardonable sin", but those who recanted of the faith, undoubtedly felt like God had let them down, and failed them, and thus would be hard to bring back to repentance later on. Though many did. This was one of the great controvesies of the early church. What to do with those traitors who denied the faith, but later on wanted to re-join the church. Should we accept them and let them in the church now, and count them as full members or reject them altogether, or accept them as partial members w. probationary rights and priviliges.
The numbers of those that Rome and the Jews suspected of being Christian should have declined sharply after the Rapture, Also, since Nero left for Greece in July-August of 66 to participate in the olympic games and sing and be an actor, He did not return to Rome until
the late Fall of AD 67 (over a year later). This extended presence or visitation of Nero
in Greece is a good illustration of the meaning of the Greek word Parousia. It does
not mean just a one-day event. It means an extended visit of weeks, months, or
even a year or more, as in this case of Nero. The Greeks referred to Nero's visit as
his parousia. After Nero left Rome and while he was in Greece, there arose another
conspiracy against him. That is why he had to hurry back to Rome in late 67.
Also when the Jews rebelled in August of 66 Rome would now turn her attention (hate) towards the Jews everywhere in the empire, to see if they would join in the Jewish Rebellion of 66 AD.
However, I believe there were still Christians on planet earth during this time. Remember that the great trib was only in the Roman known world. If the apostles had preached the gospel to every creature under heaven (Col 1:23) by 63 AD (time of Pauls death) then elect could still be getting saved in other parts of the globe even while the rapture was going on in the Oikounmene (Roman known world, aka "civilized world"). It is good to differentiate between the elect and those in the covenant, and those regenerated (3 different rules for 3 different sets of people). The elect are unbelievers before they get in the covenant, and before they get regenerated (Romans 11:28 "they are enemies for your sakes or towards you")
I believe people were still getting regenerated, even after the rapture, just mostly in other parts of the world. John 10:16 And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd.
The one flock and one shepherd will happen in Glory, probably never here on earth, unless at the end of the millennium.
and
John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you forever;
That means the comforter was ever on planet earth, as long as there were elect to comfort.
That age old debate of whether Christians can "lose their salvation or not" should never be entered into. When are you saved? The problem is you WERE saved, you ARE being saved, and you WILL be saved, according to Scripture. It could be argued that at election time (before the foundation of the world), you were elected to be saved, thus you were saved from hell even that early. It can be argued that until you get regenerated, you aren't saved, and regeneration happens between your birth and your death. It can be argued that you arent officially saved from hell, until great white throne judgment day when God passes judgment on you and says to you, "enter into the kingdom". When someome asks you if you believe Christians can lose their salvation, dont answer that question. It is a trap. Instead answer: The elect cannot get un-elected. The regenerate cannot get un-regenerated again, but those in the covenant, in church, or even some called Christians or some claiming to be Christian, can and will be sent to hell after their names get erased from the book of life.
During the great trib. some of the Christians would have done the smart thing and moved to the outer edges of the Roman Empire, say Great Britain, or East into Turkey, Ukraine, or Russia. Or north into the Scandanavian countries, or South into South Africa. It is possible those Christians were suffering very little persecution, and thus didn't need to be raptured. But they still needed, and had the Holy Spirit in them, even after the rapture.
It is possible the Apostle John was left on earth during that time, also possibly, the Christians who left Jerusalem and fled to Pella never got raptured and thus may have seen the 70 AD coming of Jesus in wrath and judgment against Jerusalem.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Matthew 24:28
For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together. Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be
darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: Matthew 24:30
And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. Matthew 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
These verses are not to be taken in chronological order, nor is the rest of Matthew 24. The only sequential thing we can deduce is in Matt 24:29 "immediately after the tribulation of those days". All else is summary, and highlighting main points in thematic order. Furthermore the coming of the Son of Man happened in stages, events spread out from 65AD to 70AD, and there are 2 "comings" of Christ, the rapture in 66AD and the 70AD coming in wrath. Then too, there are 3 tribulations, the Jewish trib, the Chirstian trib that got cut short by the rapture, and the general tribulation of just living in this world. John 16:33 "with the world, you shall have tribulation"
we Christians go about sowing in tears, but we shall reap in Joy. We are even called to die to self John 12:24 Very truly I tell you, unless a kernel of wheat falls to the ground and dies, it remains only a single seed. But if it dies, it produces many seeds.
Jesus switches talking about one theme, to another in just one verse. I will try to summarize how these verses Matt 24:27-31 should be interpreted here, then go into more detail of some of them later on in this file. We must look at Matt 24, Mark 13, Luke 21, and the book of Revelation, Josephus, Tacitus, and Yosipon to get our answers.
Matthew 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
(The Rapture in 66AD); Matthew 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
(Judaism is the carcase, Rome's legions are the eagles, scope = all over the Roman known world, but especially in Judea were the eagles gathered, time frame is 66-70 AD) Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
(Jewish Tribulation 66-70AD, sun darkened, moon no light, stars fall from heaven are all political guiding lights [luminaries, if you will] like the high priest, sanhedrin etc failing to give their guidance and wisdom, powers of the heavens shaken = 2 Peter 3:10 For the day of the Lord, will come like a thief, in which the Heavens will pass away with a roar, the elements
(elementary things, like elementary school, not even Jr high nor High school) will melt with fervent heat, and the earth
(old world creation, way of relating to God, firmament = spiritual boundary between God and man ) and its’ works will be burnt up.
Ceremonial law abolished when temple came down, time frame = 70AD)
Matthew 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven:
(double fulfillment here, face of a man in the clouds in 65AD per Yosippon chap 87, Star that looked like a sword [cross of Jesus, but longer] that stood over Jerusalem for a full year 65-66AD, and the vengeance of the Son of God in 70 AD on the Jews was a sign that the son of God was reigning in Heaven, and governing events here on earth, per the early church fathers.)
Matt 24:30
and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Note: Greek word "ge" should not be translated "earth" here but "land". All the tribes of the "land" of Israel went into a mourning after 70 AD as grevious as when parents lose their only son, but not like the Jews ever recognized Jesus as their only son. They saw the effects of the Son of Man coming on the clouds (of saints) with power and great glory. I.E. the destruction of their city, temple, priesthood, and "chosen people of God" status. All the Oikounmene (Roman Civilized World) heard about the wrath of God poured out on the Jews in 70 AD, Titus triumphal entry into Rome, w. prisoners, and the Arch de Titus was built to commemorate that victory in 81AD. Just google the Arch of Titus to see pictures of it today in Modern Italy.
Matthew 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Note: this is the rapture in 66AD.
Now for more detail:
Matthew 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
note: Which coming? the multi year coming in wrath and judgment in the Jewish-Roman war of 66 - 70AD, or the instantaneous 66 AD rapture, 1 Thess 4:16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17) Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.
That is self evident, has to be the rapture.
Matthew 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
That is the 70 AD coming in wrath.
Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
the tribulation of those days in this verse refers to the Jewish Tribulation which ended when the Jews ended, i.e. when the temple came down. So immediately after that, the political rulers of the Jews, i.e. high priest, sanhedrin, etc. are the sun, moon and stars (luminaries) who gave religious and political guidance, leadership, knowledge and wisdom, these all would be done away.
Matt 24:30 And then shall appear the sign
(see ppg A. below, there were several signs, not just one) of the Son of man in heaven and then shall all the tribes of the earth
("ge" here should be translated "land" not "earth", i.e. land of Israel) mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory
(Roman armies coming in wrath and judgment on the Jews, 67-70 AD). Jesus coming in vengeance and wrath on the Jews via Gods "army" i.e. the Romans. Was the biggest sign, seen by the whole known world, and thruout the ages of time. God has used pagan armies before as "His army" see Isaiah 10:5,6 "O Assyria the rod of mine anger"and Mt 22:7 "sent His troops" which in this verse in history are the Romans.
ppg A. The biggest sign of the son of man ruling in Heaven was Gods wrath and vengeance against the Jews in the 70 AD conflaguration. Gods army (the Romans) scrubbed the Jews capitol city, from the face of the earth. Their temple was burned down, walls plowed under, population murdered or enslaved, even the tribes were gone (no temple records to prove who was of what tribe, all hearsay and rumor after this, if you claimed to be a "levite" for example).
But as for the lesser signs fulfilling Matt 24:30 consider:
Sepher Yosippon (A Mediaeval History of Ancient Israel) Translated from the Hebrew by Steven B. Bowman. Excerpts from Chapter 87 "Burning of the Temple"
For one year before Vespasian came, a single great star shining like (an) unsheathed sword was seen over the Temple.
(Note, that would look like a cross, i.e. the one Jesus was crucified on, but longer) And in those days when the sign was seen it was the holiday of Passover and during that entire night the Temple was lit up and illuminated like the light of day, and thus it was all seven days of the Passover. All the sages of Jerusalem knew that it was a malevolent sign, but the rest of the ignorant people said that it was a benevolent sign. ...Now it happened after this that there was seen from above over the Holy of Holies for the whole night the outline of a man's face, the like of whose beauty had never been seen in all the land, and his appearance was quite awesome. Moreover, in those days were seen chariots of fire and horsemen, a great force flying across the sky near to the ground coming against Jerusalem and all the land of Judah, all of them horses of fire and riders of fire. When the holiday of Shavuot came in those days, during the night the priests heard within the Temple something like the sound of men going and the sound of men marching in a multitude going into the Temple, and a terrible and mighty voice was heard speaking: "Let's go and leave this House".
note: Shavuot, like several other Jewish holidays, began as an agricultural festival that marked the end of the spring barley harvest and the beginning of the summer wheat harvest. In ancient times, Shavuot was a pilgrimage festival during which Israelites brought offerings to the Temple in Jerusalem – the “first fruits” of their harvest. https://reformjudaism.org/jewish-holidays/shavuot/shavuot-customs-and-rituals consider also
Shavuot commonly known in English as the Feast of Weeks, is one of the biblically-ordained Three Pilgrimage Festivals. It occurs on the sixth day of the Hebrew month of Sivan; in the 21st century, it may fall between May 15 and June 14 on the Gregorian calendar. In the Bible, Shavuot marked the wheat harvest in the Land of Israel. In addition, rabbinic tradition teaches that the date also marks the revelation of the Ten Commandments to Moses and the Israelites at Mount Sinai, which, according to the tradition of Orthodox Judaism, occurred at this date in 1312 BC. The word Shavuot means "weeks", and its date is directly linked to that of Passover; the Torah mandates the seven-week Counting of the Omer, beginning on the second day of Passover, to be immediately followed by Shavuot. This counting of days and weeks is understood to express anticipation and desire for the giving of the Torah. On Passover, the people of Israel were freed from their enslavement to Pharaoh; on Shavuot, they were given the Torah and became a nation committed to serving God. While Shavuot is sometimes referred to as Pentecost (in Koinē Greek: Πεντηκοστή) due to its timing after Passover, "pentecost" meaning "fifty" in Greek and Shavuot occurring fifty days after the first day of Pesach/Passover, it is not the same celebration as the Christian Pentecost, which comes fifty days after Pascha/Easter.
Shavuot, the plural of a word meaning "week" or "seven", alludes to the fact that this festival happens exactly seven weeks (i.e. "a week of weeks") after Passover. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shavuot
Josephus describes these "signs" as following:
Wars.6.5.3. (page 582) Thus were the miserable people persuaded by these deceivers, and such as belied God himself; while they did not attend nor give credit to the signs that were so evident, and did so plainly foretell their future desolation, but, like men infatuated, without either eyes to see or minds to consider, did not regard the denunciations that God made to them. Thus there was a star 20 resembling a sword, which stood over the city, and a comet, that continued a whole year. Thus also before the Jews' rebellion, and before those commotions which preceded the war, when the people were come in great crowds to the feast of unleavened bread, on the eighth day of the month Xanthicus, 21 [Nisan,] and at the ninth hour of the night, so great a light shone round the altar and the holy house, that it appeared to be bright day time; which lasted for half an hour. This light seemed to be a good sign to the unskillful, but was so interpreted by the sacred scribes, as to portend those events that followed immediately upon it. At the same festival also, a heifer, as she was led by the high priest to be sacrificed, brought forth a lamb in the midst of the temple. Moreover, the eastern gate of the inner 22 [court of the] temple, which was of brass, and vastly heavy, and had been with difficulty shut by twenty men, and rested upon a basis armed with iron, and had bolts fastened very deep into the firm floor, which was there made of one entire stone, was seen to be opened of its own accord about the sixth hour of the night. Now those that kept watch in the temple came hereupon running to the captain of the temple, and told him of it; who then came up thither, and not without great difficulty was able to shut the gate again. This also appeared to the vulgar to be a very happy prodigy, as if God did thereby open them the gate of happiness. But the men of learning understood it, that the security of their holy house was dissolved of its own accord, and that the gate was opened for the advantage of their enemies. So these publicly declared that the signal foreshowed the desolation that was coming upon them.
Besides these, a few days after that feast, on the one and twentieth day of the month Artemisius, [Jyar,] a certain prodigious and incredible phenomenon appeared: I suppose the account of it would seem to be a fable, were it not related by those that saw it, and were not the events that followed it of so considerable a nature as to deserve such signals; for, before sun-setting, chariots and troops of soldiers in their armor were seen running about among the clouds, and surrounding of cities. Moreover, at that feast which we call Pentecost, as the priests were going by night into the inner [court of the temple,] as their custom was, to perform their sacred ministrations, they said that, in the first place, they felt a quaking, and heard a great noise, and after that they heard a sound as of a great multitude, saying, "Let us remove hence.
"But, what is still more terrible, there was one Jesus, the son of Ananus, a plebeian and a husbandman, who, four years before the war began, and at a time when the city was in very great peace and prosperity, came to that feast whereon it is our custom for every one to make tabernacles to God in the temple, 23 began on a sudden to cry aloud, "A voice from the east, a voice from the west, a voice from the four winds, a voice against Jerusalem and the holy house, a voice against the bridegrooms and the brides, and a voice against this whole people!" This was his cry, as he went about by day and by night, in all the lanes of the city. However, certain of the most eminent among the populace had great indignation at this dire cry of his, and took up the man, and gave him a great number of severe stripes; yet did not he either say any thing for himself, or any thing peculiar to those that chastised him, but still went on with the same words which he cried before. Hereupon our rulers, supposing, as the case proved to be, that this was a sort of divine fury in the man, brought him to the Roman procurator, where he was whipped till his bones were laid bare; yet he did not make any supplication for himself, nor shed any tears, but turning his voice to the most lamentable tone possible, at every stroke of the whip his answer was, "Woe, woe to Jerusalem!" And when Albinus [for he was then our procurator] asked him, Who he was? and whence he came? and why he uttered such words? he made no manner of reply to what he said, but still did not leave off his melancholy ditty, till Albinus took him to be a madman, and dismissed him. Now, during all the time that passed before the war began, this man did not go near any of the citizens, nor was seen by them while he said so; but he every day uttered these lamentable words, as if it were his premeditated vow,
"Woe, woe to Jerusalem!" Nor did he give ill words to any of those that beat him every day, nor good words to those that gave him food; but this was his reply to all men, and indeed no other than a melancholy presage of what was to come. This cry of his was the loudest at the festivals; and he continued this ditty for seven years and five months, without growing hoarse, or being tired therewith, until the very time that he saw his presage in earnest fulfilled in our siege, when it ceased; for as he was going round upon the wall, he cried out with his utmost force, "Woe, woe to the city again, and to the people, and to the holy house!" And just as he added at the last, "Woe, woe to myself also!" there came a stone out of one of the engines, and smote him, and killed him
immediately; and as he was uttering the very same presages he gave up the ghost.
28 For wheresoever the carcass is, there will the eagles (some trannys say “vultures”) be gathered together.
(Jerusalem is the carcass, the Roman ensigns are the eagles-vultures who DID pick the Jewish carcass clean in 70 AD. So all that gold in "gods house" was Gods payment for (got put in the pockets of) the Roman soldiers sacking Jerusalem, and their generals Vespasian and Titus were rewarded by God with the rulership of the empire). Rome did Gods will. Rome avenged the death of Jesus upon that same (an evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign), Rome brought down the idol and stumbling block of the Jews, the temple, now that the REAL and ONLY acceptable sacrifice for sins had come, and had been rejected by the Jews. Rome butchered the levitical priesthood who would not give way to the melchizadekal priesthood of Jesus, and instead killed the Christians. Rome terminated the ceremonial law (you could no longer go up to Jerusalem 3 times per year as command by Moses). And what of the Holy Relics in the Temple? WARS Book 6, Chap 8, ppg. 3. But now at this time it was that one of the priests, the son of Thebuthus, whose name was Jesus, upon his having security given him by the oath of Caesar that he should be preserved upon condition that he should deliver to him certain of the precious things that had been reposited in the temple, came out of it, and delivered him from the wall of the holy house two candlesticks like to those that lay in the holy house, with tables, and cisterns, and vials, all made of solid gold, and very heavy. He also delivered to him the veils and the garments, with the precious stones, (possible Urim and Thumin) and a great number of other precious vessels that belonged to their sacred worship. The treasurer of the temple also, whose name was Phineas, was seized on, and shewed Titus the coats and girdles of the priests, with a great quantity of purple and scarlet, which were there reposited for the use of the veil, as also a great deal of cinnamon and cassia, with a large quantity of other sweet spices, which used to be mixed together, and offered as incense to God every day. A great many other treasures were also delivered to him, with sacred ornaments of the temple not a few; which things thus delivered to Titus, obtained of him for this man the same pardon that he had allowed to such as deserted of their own accord.
Who got the holy books (the most priceless treasures) from the Temple? Titus Caesar,’ says Josephus, ‘when the city of Jerusalem was taken by force, persuaded me frequently to take whatever I pleased out of the ruins of my country; for he told me that he gave me leave so to do. But there being nothing that I much valued, now my country was destroyed, I only asked of Titus liberty for myself and my family, as the only comfort now remaining in my calamities; I also had the holy books by his concession.’ THE LIFE OF FLAVIUS JOSEPHUS ppg 75
In Matthew 24:14 Jesus said "This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world ... and then the end shall come." This was fulfilled per: Romans 1:8; Romans 10:18, Romans 16:26, Col 1:6, 23 some of these passages use the same greek word for "the end" as Mt 24:14 does.
The word "parousia" was a technical term used by the Greeks to refer to the visitation of a king to one of his subject territories. It was an extended visitation, in some cases lasting for more than a year, in order to reward his faithful subjects and punish his rebellious subjects. It was not just a one day or "twinkling of an eye" event." In September of 66 – Nero was on his way to Greece to participate in the games and musical contests. Vespasian and his legion of powerful soldiers accompanied him as his bodyguard. Nero remained in Greece for over a year (from Sept 66 until early 68). This extended visit of Nero to Greece was referred to by some of the Greek writers as the Parousia (visitation) of Nero. It was not a one-day event, but an extended visit of more than a year.
By the way, after God and His angels and saints pull out of the Temple, it is marked as an idol for destruction. So, all you Christian Zionists out there today, dont go and try to rebuild any physical Ezekiel temple. God wont occupy it, and that building has no significance. Dont murder a bunch of animals there and sprinkle any blood, that covenant has ended. Ezekiels temple should be interpreted in light of I Corinthians 3:16
Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? I Corinthians 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
Matthew 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
I have heard some reformed scholars (James B Jordan, who is usually a FAR better scholar than I) claim that this “gathering together of His elect” is just the organizing of Christians into local churches after 70 AD. But Christians were ALREADY organized into local churches prior to 70 AD. Remember the 7 churches that John wrote to when he penned the book of Revelation (Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamon, Thyatira, Philadelphia, Laodicia) and to whom did Paul write all those epistles to (Corinthians, Galatians, Philippians, Colossians, Romans, etc.) True, many of the local churches were probably hiding in catacombs holding worship services in caves during the Great Roman Neronic Empire wide persecution, but there were so many organized churches back then that the Apostle Paul could say 2 Cor 11:28 28 Apart from such external things, there is the daily pressure on me of concern for all the churches” and regarding head coverings Paul says “ 16 If anyone wants to be contentious about this, we have no other practice—nor do the churches of God.”
Does it sound like the Christians have not yet been “synagogued” (organized) into churches yet by 70 AD? No, my friend, When Mt 24:31 says “And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.” this is the rapture, back in 66 AD
I challenge you. See if the Baptist, Episcopalian, Presby, Roman Catholic, Methodist, or Pentacostal explanations for these verses, are as plausible as the 66AD one.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
(more time sensitive proof that the rapture and soon coming day of the Lord spoken of all over the NT was talking about 70 AD. That generation (40 years from Christ) would see all these things.
35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
(the old heavens and old earth DID pass away in 70 AD fulfilling 2nd Peter 3
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
(Speaking of the Rapture again).
37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41 Two women will be grinding oat the mill; one will be taken and one left.
42 Therefore, stay awake, for you do not know on what day your Lord is coming.
(an idiotic warning if the rapture and coming of the Lord, arent to happen for 2000 years or so)
43 But know this, that if the master of the house had known in what part of the night the thief was coming, he would have stayed awake and would not have let his house be broken into. 44 Therefore you also must be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.
(an UN-necessary and idiotic warning, if it is 2000 years off in the future)
Mt 24:36 36 “But about that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone."
cannot be talking about the coming war, the coming of Jesus in wrath and judgment against Jerusalem and the Jewish nation and covenant, because this second type of coming by Jesus in 70 AD was a slow build up that everyone could see. Jesus wrath was being felt ever since 66 AD with the commencement of the Jewish Rebellion. When gangs rule Jerusalem and persecuted the populace. No, Verse 36 HAS to be talking about the rapture. As does every other verse after this (up to Mt 25:14) where you see "the day nor the hour" and the parable of the 10 virgins. Remember there are 2 types of "comings of Jesus" and 3 types of tribulation recorded in Mt 24 and Revelation. Comings: the instaneous Rapture, the slow 5 year coming in wrath and judgment against the Jews of 67-70AD.
Tribulations: Christians pre rapture, Christians post rapture, Jews in Judea but especially in Jerusalem
When Jesus said Mt 25:15-18 Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place ... then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains. Whoever is on the housetop must not go down to get the things out, that are in his house. Whoever is in the field must not turn back to get his cloak.
you were to flee immediately. If you went back to get your things, you would be tempted to take your extra clothes, gold and silver coin, memorabilia, food stores, pots N pans to cook in for your family, soon you would have a donkey train that would raise suspicion that you thought the Jews would lose the war, that you were skipping town, that you were even defecting over to the Romans with your assets and allegiance and inside knowledge of this city, etc., thus becoming an enemy of we Jews, and the Jews would accuse you of being a Roman Sympathizer. So, the Jews, just to steal all your stuff in your donkey train, take over your property (unless you had sold it, which would be a worse mistake, then they would know for certain you were skipping town), and kill you, as a Roman sympathizer.
So Jesus is warning them, do the safe thing. When you see the abomination of desolation standing where he should not be ... Just flee immediately with just the clothes on your back, dont even come down from the house top, nor turn back from the field. Count yourself lucky to have escaped with your lives, dont try to escape with your lives AND your possessions too, that will get you killed. Now the wise Christian living amongst the Jews would heed Jesus warning early, like in 30 AD when Jesus spoke these words, and sell out right then, and get out from under Jewish control immediately, and many did Acts 2:44. "Where Lord" is asked in verse 37. Answer: where ever the Jews are in power in the whole Oikounmene, "wherever the carcass is, there the vultures will gather". I.E. not just in Jerusalem, not just in Judea, but "in your midst", where ever you are in the Empire. If the Jews didn't control your area, then you were safe. You didn't have to flee to the hills, nor worry about not coming down from the house top, etc.' Where Lord? wherever the carcass is, there the (Romans) vultures will gather.
In Luke 17:37 Jesus is asked "where" will all this happen? I.E. "where will all these things you just spoke of in Luke 17:20-36 take place"? The answer is: all over the oikounmeme (Roman known world). Jews had settled all over the civilized world, over 100k in Alexandria Egypt alone. So, the wrath against the Jews would happen all over the Roman known world (the Romans persecuted the Jews all over their world, when the Jews rebelled in 66 AD because the zealots sent out an appeal for universal aid for Jerusalem. Jews of the world, UNITE! behind our bid for independence. Send Aid. Send money, Send men. Thus you read of the slaughter in Caesarea, Alexandria and other places.) So, wherever the corpse is (dead body of Moses, i.e. Jews according to the flesh, according to the law, not the Spirit), wherever that dead body is, there the vultures (eagles, as in Roman Eagles) will gather (to pick her bones clean). This was a permanent judgment on the Jews, and their covenant and their temple and their priesthood, by God. But the stupid Christian Zionists of today are trying their best to put flesh back on those bones picked clean by the Romans, and resurrect that covenant. That Christless, worthless animal sacrificing covenant that could never take away sin.
Likwise the questioner who is asking "where Lord" is also asking where will this rapture take place? Answer, whereever there are Christians suffering the Great Tribulation. I.E. all over the Roman know world, as soon as Nero blames the coming Great Fire of Rome AD64 on the Christians and kicks off the Neronic Persecution.
How about the question "when Lord". Let us ask that question and see if we can refine it down a bit more, as to when exactly one is to "not go down from the housetop, nor turn back from the field". That will have to be separated out as a different topic than when is the rapture, lest this topic go on too long.
But when was the rapture?
Daniel 9:26,27 26 says "And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah
(Jesus) be cut off
(die), but not for himself
(based on His own sins or crimes): and the people
(Romans) of the prince that shall come
(Vespasian-Titus) shall destroy the city
(Jerusalem) and the sanctuary
(Herods Temple). And its end will come with a flood
(of men pouring over the walls); even to the end
(of the age, i.e. 70 AD, end of the Temple, end of the Covenant, end of your people Daniel, no more Jews, because there is no more covenant for them after 70 AD, end of the Beast too, as Rome virtually "died" under civil war during the year of 4 emperors, then Rome was resurrected by Vespasian) there will be war; desolations are determined.
(Both of Judaism and Rome) 27 And he
(Messiah) will confirm a covenant
(too long to insert here, see ppg below) with the many
(Christians of all ethnicities and nations) for one week
(7 years), but in the middle of the week he
(messiah) shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease,
(this refers to the rapture and God perceived the slaughter of the saints as a "sacrifice and oblation" to him, a "sweet savor"; for more on this concept of the Saints sacrifices being acceptable to God see also Mark 9:49; Romans 12:1; Eph 5:2; Phil 2:17; 4:18; Heb 13:15; Heb 13:16; 1 Pet 2:5; Rev 6:9 ) and on the wing of
(concurrent with in time, beside, and powering the) abominations
(abominations done to the Christians during the Neronic persecution) will come the one who makes desolate
(Nero), until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, gushes forth on the one who makes desolate
(Nero the Sea Beast of Rev, the Man of Sin, suicides in June 68 AD. I.E. He dies of a knife in the neck [considered a head wound for the Book of Revelation]. Specifically the carotid artery would have been cut which would have gushed out lots of blood. How do I know this? When you want to kill someome by knife, and do it in the least painful way (which I am sure Nero would have requested of his servant Ephaproditus) is NOT to stab Nero in the heart. But to cut the major artery, in the neck, so he loses conscientiousness when his blood pressure drops too low, and he will bleed out fast. Thats why Scripure uses the word "gushes". Dont go with the NIV, KJV, or Douay-Rheims Bible, here. Instead go with the NKJV, NAS, Amplified, and ASV. The word "temple" should not even be in there. The Hebrew word כְּנַ֤ף (kə·nap̄) means literally "the wing"
Noun - feminine singular construct Strong's 3671: An edge, extremity, a wing, a flap, a quarter, a pinnacle. Now Nero was no where near the temple when he suicided, He was in Rome. The KJV is worthless in the latter half of this verse.
OK, how does Jesus "confirm the covenant"?
What covenant? The covenant God has with His covenant people The Christians, and the Jews (2 different covenants) at this time. For the Christians confirming the covenant means testing or proving the covenant people so that "it is he who endures to the end who shall be saved", i.e. hit them with some severe tribulation (empire wide persecution under Nero and the Jews). Then Jesus confirms HIS part of the covenant by taking them to heaven, i.e. keeping His word that "he who endures to the end, shall be saved". For the Jews, to prove the covenant or confirm it (if for 7 years start at march of 63, if not for 7 years,
Josephus talks about James (the brother of Jesus) being killed by the Jews in AD 62.
Albinus arrives in Jerusalem as procurator in 62AD
April of 62 John is exiled to Patmos
Aug 63 – Paul was arrested again and sent to Rome for execution
Paul is martyred in late 63
Late 64 – Peter’s Martyrdom in Jerusalem just before the Neronic persecution
July 19, 64 – Great Fire in Rome
Aug 64 – Nero began the Persecution of Christians
AD 64 – Correspondence between Paul and Seneca
Other Events During the Neronic Persecution (Late 64)
The Neronic persecution, which began in the Summer of 64, might have been the impetus for a change in both the procuratorship and the high priesthood.
Florus may have been sent to Judea in the late Summer of 64 for the express purpose of enforcing the Neronic persecution, while Agrippa II at the same time may have appointed a new high priest (Matthias b. Theophilus) who would be willing and able to carry out the dirty work of Nero against the Christians. This would have been late Summer or early Fall of AD 64. Gessius Florus became the Procurator (in place of Albinus), which is probably Late 64 just as the Neronic persecution was getting underway. This is the start of the Jewish Tribulation
Late 64 – Construction of outer temple buildings was complete
June of 66 = the Rapture
start from 66AD to 70 AD) means that God will reward Israel, i.e. the Jews, according to how well they have obeyed their covenant with Yahweh. I.E. punish the harlot bride, by burning her w. fire Leviticus 21:9; Psalm 89:38,ff; Matt 21:43,44; Luke 19:43-44; Matt 22:6,7; 1 Thess 2:14-16; Rev 18:4-6;
So, what is our best guess on when the Great Trib started, ended and have the Rapture happen in the middle of it?
We know for sure that Nero died in June of 68 AD and that all of 69 was the year of 4 emperors (Galba, Otho, Vitellius, Vespasian). Now you dont have time to persecute the Christians if your empire is fighting for its life in 69 with all the accompanying upheavals of civil war) and since Nero had been dead approx 6 months, Nero (who had Peter and Paul killed, in 62 to please the Jews, which kicked off the Great Trib. Any later than this and Nero wasn't interested in pleasing the Jews, but in Robbing their temple. Also, ask yourself what great event happened that the Christians (John writing Rev) knew that they were in the GREAT TRIB? If you kill Christianitys two greatest leaders, that would send shock waves around the entire Christian world. Harnack dogmatically asserts that the martyrdom of Paul in July 64 is ‘an assured fact’. And Ed Stevens claims Peter was killed at roughly the same time as Paul, AD 63,64.
Ed Stevens places the Rapture at June of 66 see page 161 Final_Decade-Stevens.pdf
This gives the great trib a start date of Jan 63 or dec 62 (had to be going on when John wrote Rev. per "I John, your brother and fellow companion in the Tribulation was on the Isle called Patmos when ... ") and an end date of Jan 70 or there abouts.
Now, how is the end of the GREAT TRIB related to Nero? 'Nero who started the empire wide persecution of the Christians in 64 by blaming the great fire of Rome on the Christians (at the behest of his Jewish wife Poppea). Since Nero (and Judaism) were the driving forces behind the persecution of the GREAT TRIB, once Nero was dead, and the Romans saw how well the Christians died in the arena over the past several years, they actually began to feel sorry for them and wanted to stop butchering them, so after June of 68 (Neros death) the persecution slowly died out throughout the empire, ending in lets say January of 70 AD. Why carry out a dead emperors orders, especially when everyone hated to do it any longer.
Also, the Jewish-Roman war was in progress. After a while the Romans saw that the Christians DIDNT STAND WITH THE JEWS against the empire, like they thought the Christians would, since the Romans originally thought of Christianity as an offshoot of Judaism, just some nuts worshiping another Jewish rabbi. Jewish persecution of the Christians was undoubtedly stiff during the corrupt reigns of Roman Procurators of Judea: Lucceius Albinus from 62 until 64 and Gessius Florus (64-66AD, these corrupt Procurators job I believe it was, to rob the temple of its gold, give most of that portion to Nero, who was used to declaring even Roman senators "traitors" then grabbing their gold and estates", then Florus was to pick a fight with the Jews, and start a war with them to cover up the theft. When you are at war with someone, stealing from them is OK, since you are trying to kill them anyway. AKA "All's fair in love N war") So Jewish persecution of Christians would have been severe from the year 63 (these two Roman procurators would sell their "justice" to the highest bidder in court, so kill Christians at will and pay off the Romans to look the other way), but after the Jewish rebellion in 66, after General Cestius 12th legion was driven from the land by the Jews, and before Vespasian had most of the land conquered; Jewish persecution of the Christians must have maxed out since there was absolutely no Roman restrainer left in the land.
However, the Jewish - Roman war would eventually reach a point where the Jews got desperate (as Vespasian swept across the land of Judea, conquering city after city) and so the Jews retreated to Jerusalem, trusting that God would protect His capitol city, i.e. the strong delusion). Jews, fighting the Romans in a beseiged city like Jerusalem would not have had access to any Christians except those Jewish maryters converting to Christianity inside Jerusalem.
Based on these assumptions, we can assume that the Great Trib lasted from say Dec 62 - January of 63 to January of 70, seven years as predicted in Daniel 9:27 (quoted above). It was "cut short" in the middle by the Rapture, and if the Rapture was prophesied to come after time, times and half a time, i.e. 3.5 years into the 7 year Great Trib, There's a good probability for the time of the Rapture to be half way into 66, say June.
Note, the rapture may NOT have taken ALL Christians from the earth. There is a legend that says that John traveled to Ephesus where he took care of Virgin Mary and that he lived there until the end of his life. Eastons Bible Dictionary and Foxes Book of Martyrs seem to counter any John getting raptured in 66 AD theory.
Since we preterists believe Rev was written in late 62 AD, by John on Patmos (banished by Nero aka Domitian at that time [For all you Irenaeus fans who insist on late dating Rev all the way into the 90's based on his AGAINST HERESIES, when Irenaeus said "for that was seen nearly in our own day, near the end of Domitians reign" he meant Nero, whose full name was Nero Claudius Caesar Augustus Germanicus Lucius Domitius Ahenobarbus; for proof of this, see:
Josephus Antiquities Book 20,8,1 "1. Now Claudius Cesar died when he had reigned thirteen years, eight months, and twenty days;* and a report went about that he was poisoned by his wife Agrippina. Her father was Germanicus, the brother of Caesar. Her husband was Domitius Anobarbus, one of the most illustrious persons that was in the city of Rome; after whose death, and her long continuance in widowhood, Claudius took her to wife. She brought along with her a son, Domitius, of the same name with his father. " Also, Ed Stevens doccuments in his book FINAL DECADE page 36 ""Oct 13, 54 – Nero began his reign as emperor at 17 years old. Reigned AD 54-68. [Antiq. 20:148-150 (20.8.1)] Nero’s real name was Lucius Domitius Aenobarbus. In Ken Gentry’s book, Before Jerusalem
Fell, in footnote 16 on page 49 he tells us that, “...Nero’s name was Domitius Nero...” In this section of Gentry’s book, he mentions the confusion that Irenaeus had regarding his mention of Domitian in connection with John’s writing of the book of Revelation. Gentry also talks about Nero’s original name in his book, The Beast, on pages 14-15, where he says, “...Lucius Domitius Aenobarbus, better known by his adoptive name, Nero Caesar. ...The father of Nero was Enaeus Domitius Aenobarbus ... mother was Agrippina, the sister of Emperor Gaius (Caligula) and niece of the emperor Claudius. Nero was born on Dec. 15th, AD 37, just nine months after the death of Emperor Tiberius...(the name “Aenobarbus” meant “red-beard”)." Nero was born the same year as Josephus. [See Warmington, Nero Reality and Legend] There are several scholars who believe that Irenaeus was referring to Nero when he said that John was still alive toward the end of the reign of “Domitianou.” This is an adjective form of Domitius (Nero’s family name) and not the nominative form of Domitian’s name (which would instead be “Domitianikos”). If it was a reference to “Domitian” it would most likely follow the form of proper names which had the definite article. Since Irenaeus does not use the definite article, it would seem more likely that he is referring to a family name (Domitius) rather than to the more formal imperial name. [Antiq. 20:149-150 (20.8.1)]; cf. Gentry BJF, p. 49 note 16, and Beast of Revelation, pp. 14-15.
But continuing on with when was the great Trib. on page 24 WHAT HAPPENED IN 70 AD: Josephus pinpoints its beginning in AD 62 when Festus died (and before Albinus could get to Judea) and Ananus II was installed as high priest. The Jews were without a Roman governor for 3 months. Ananus II took advantage of this opportunity to arrest "James and some of his companions" It was this Ananus of whom Acts 23:3 says "Then Paul said to him, “God is going to strike you, you whitewashed wall! Do you sit to try me according to the Law, and in violation of the Law, order me to be struck?” God must have shown Paul the manner of Ananus death.
"It was during this four year "great tribulation" AD 62-66 that James, Paul and Peter sufffered martyrdom, and apostle John was exiled to the island of Patmos, where he wrote the book of Revelation. In the opening chapter of Revelation, John says "I, John, your brother and fellow-partaker in the tribulation and kingdom and perseverance which are in Jesus, was on the island called Patmos, because of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus. According to Papias the late first century Christian historian, John was released from Patmos to reside in Ephesus, where he was killed by the Jews during the Neronic persecution (great tribulation)
the book of Rev, says Rev 1:9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation.
So, it was still possible for John to go thru the great Trib (which started at the beginning of 62 with the corrupt Roman Procurators "selling their justice to the highest bidder (always the Jews)" then proceeded with Rome putting to death Peter and Paul in 64, 65 and Rome blaming the great fire of Rome on the Christians, and ending in 70AD after the year of 4 emperors, i.e the Roman civil wars, "apparent death of Rome, per Rev 13:3"). However The Bible is silent regarding when or how John died. Information regarding his last days comes to us primarily from tradition. So, here is more bad tradition:
The 1913 Catholic Encyclopedia, in an article about his life, states that writers in the second and third centuries A.D. accepted a widely held tradition that the apostle spent his last days in Ephesus. Tradition According to the Catholics, Justin Martyr also referred to John as an apostle of Jesus who lived in Ephesus. St. Irenaes, Eusebius and still others, again according to the Catholic Encyclopedia, all agree that when John left the isle of Patmos, he being The last living original disciple then spent his remaining days in Ephesus until he died somewhere around the close of the first century. Taken from https://www.biblestudy.org/question/how-did-apostle-john-die.html
The main problem with this "tradition" is John would have been the ONLY remaining Apostle alive to guide the entire Catholic (Universal) church for the next 20 or 30 years after Christ raptured most everyone out of there. Though conversions must have still happened all thru history. Where are Johns' epistles (letters to the churches) like Paul wrote. Do you think there werent church problems, heresies, etc to be addressed? If John did write letters to the churches during this period, why werent they inscripturated like Pauls were, so all the churches could read them, learn from them (us today too) and apply them? It is understandable that John would write no letters to churches during the rest of the tribulation after the rapture, but what about from 69Ad on to the end of the century?
Jesus said to Peters' query "Lord what about this man?"
To which Jesus replied "If I want him to remain until I come, what is that to you".
This may seem unfair of Jesus, to have Peter martyred, and John get raptured out of here, suffering little, but consider that everything has its heavenly reward. Peter gets to wear the martyers crown for all eternity, perhaps John does not. Keep this heavenly treasure concept in mind next time you hear of aborted babies or sex slaved little kids. How could God allow that to go on? Answer: They will get their heavenly reward for all eternity and probably will be nearer to God and shine brighter than you or I. Like Ed, I believe John remained till Jesus came. What I dont know is if he remained just till the rapture (that coming of Jesus, i.e. when that which is perfect is come
, in 1 Cor 13:10), or till the 70 AD "cloud coming" in wrath and judgment on the Jews. Like Ed, I ask Why leave John hanging around on planet earth after the rapture? There are no Christians in the Oikounmene (civilized known world) to shepherd, no regenerate. Elect, unbelievers, yes, but John cant know who they were, nor get them saved, or that undoes the "cut short or no life would have been saved"
of Daniel 9. After the Great Trib ended, there would have been a tremendous need for an apostle to be alive down on planet earth and ministering to Gods people (even as today, sorry you Mormons, your apostles dont qualify). But then where are his letters to the churches? Why wouldn't he document that the Rapture had happened, if he lived through it. Why not claim and explain how the 70 AD conflaguration was Jesus soon coming predicted all over the New Testament. But that there would also be far in the future coming of Jesus, to end the millennium.
Ed Stevens has done some excellent work on the whole history of this period, go to http://preterist.org/ or email him at preterist1@preterist.org. In fact I base much of my conclusions on his historical research.
I differ from Ed on a few points:
He thinks the man of sin was a local Jewish temple leader, I think it was Nero.
I think the Abomination that causes desolation was the two different comings of the Roman Army surrounding Jerusalem, Cestius in 66AD and Titus in 70AD. He thinks it was something else.
Ed falls for the Dispensationalist mis interpretation of Rev 17:12-17 that Jerusalem had a "large maritime commerce". Note: Jerusalem was 15 miles away the Dead Sea which went nowhere, no maritime commerce, and 30 miles from the Med Sea which had a ton of commerce. Thus Jerusalem could have had NO maritime commerce. Rather Rev is talking about the great whore, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
Revelation 17:6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: the woman that sits on many waters, is Judaism. The waters are different nations and peoples. Many Jews back in the first century were merchants who traded in goods carried over the seas by gentile sailors on ships financed by Jews, or carried cargo financed and traded by Jews. Revelation 18:3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies. This is just like today. If you could magically make all "Jews" dissappear from planet earth today, there would be a huge lament arise from all our politicians (in their pay), and from weapons manufacturers, and from the porn addicts, and child sex traffickers, and from hollywood (virtually all movie studios would close down), and all main stream media would dissappear. Ed takes a much too literal interpretaion of Rev 17 if he thinks it is talking about the physical city of Jerusalem.
Ed is grateful to modern day "Jews" because it was "through them that the Gentile world has received redemption, "for salvation is from the Jews" John 4:22." He says on page 45 of his book WHAT HAPPENED IN 70 AD:
"The author (Ed Stevens) wishes to reassure the Jewish people that he does not cast guilt upon modern Jews for what some of their first-century ancestors might have done. The author has no anti-Semitic bias against the Jewish people at all, but rather a fond appreciation for the rich heritage they have given all mankind (expecially to Christians), and a sympathetic understanding of the unspeakable anguish they have suffered throughout history. The world has much to learn from their history and religion, and much to thank them for. Apostle Paul stated that Israel was "beloved for the sake of the fathers" of our faith, and "enemies" only because of their rejection of the gospel and persecution of Christians. It was the Jews who were ... entrusted with the oracles of God. As Jesus said, every scribe who has become a disciple of the kingdom of heaven is like a head of a household, who brings forth out of his treasure things new and old Matt 13:52. comment: at least Ed Stevens has the courage to say a paragraph later "The modern physical land of Israel is not "the true spiritual promised land, " nor are the modern fleshly descendants of Abraham the true "Chosen People." What Ed doesn't know is that that last statement of his, alone, is enough to get him killed by the modern day Talmudists, the so called "Jews" or the FAKE Jews, as I like to call them, aka "the synagogue of satan" which is What our Lord called them.
I could write an entire 100 page article addressing point by point all of Eds statements RE the "Jewish" people above. I wont do that here, but will include a few quotes from the "Jewish" Talmud their holy book (they ignore the torah (First 5 books of the O.T. except when it serves their purpose).
Here are some quotes from the Talmud, which is the Jewish "Bible".
All children of the goyim are animals Yebamoth 98a
note, all non-Jews are goyin, i.e. gentiles. Their slur word for the gentile is "goy"
If you eat with a goy, it is the same as eating with a dog - Tospoth, Jebamoth 84b
The gentiles are not humans. They are beasts - Baba Mezia 114b
Even the best of the goyim should all be killed Soferim 15
Do not save Goyim in danger of death, show no mercy to the goyim Hikkoth AkumXI
Extermination of the Christians is a necessary sacrifice Zohar, Shemothj
Jehovah created the non-Jew in human form so that the Jew would not have to be served by beasts. The non-Jew is consequently an animal in human form, and condemned to serve the jew day and night - Midrash Talpioth p 225-L
To communicate anything to a Goy about our religious relations would be equal to killing all of the Jews, for if the Goyim knew what we teach about them, they would kill us openly - Libbre David 37
A Jew may do to a non-Jewess what he can do. He may treat her as he treats a piece of meat - Hadarine, 20 B; Schulchan Aruch, Choszen Hamiszpat 348
A Jew may violate but not marry a non-Jewish girl - Gad. Shas. 2:2
A Jew should and must make a false oath when the Goyim asks if our books contain anything against them - Szaaloth-Utszabot, The Book of Jore Dia 17
In Talmud Sanhedrin 52b it describes the right of the pharisee to kill anyone, just as long as he did so indirectly.
The Talmud provides generous loop holes for adultery, it says the penalty for adultery does not include sex with a minor, the wife of a minor, or the wife of a heathen. The Talmud also encourages seduction of Adolescent Girls called designated bond-maids. But it is important how such rapes are performed. With the designated bond-maid, one is guilty only in the case of natural connection (normal sex), but not in the case of perverse connection (kinky sex). Talmud, Kerithoth 11a The pharisees reasoned that rape in a perverted manner is outside the jurisdiction of the law (i.e. not normal rape). Normal rape, however was punishable.
So vile was the nature of a Gentile, that the Great Simeon Ben Yohi said "The best among the Gentiles deserves to be killed"
The Zohar calls Gentiles Amalekites, Zohar, Bereshith 25b "They caused the destruction of the temple, so when God reveals Himself they will be wiped off the earth. Redemption will not be completed until Amalek will be exterminated.
Ed is what is known as a "full" preterist, or a "consistent" preterist, or to some a "hyper" preterist.
Because he believes that virtually EVERYTHING ended in 70 AD, the millennium, the Great White Throne Judgment, the marriage supper of the Lamb, beast and false prophet in Revelation thrown into hell, etc. I dont. But I am with him on the fact that the Rapture happened in 66, soon coming of Jesus in wrath happened 66 thru 70 AD, that Rev was written in 62, and on his dates for the writing of the NT books, etc. Thus Ed is a "full" preterist.
I am just a partial preterist. I believe that Rev was written in 62, and the Rapture happened in 66, and that what most call the 2nd coming happened over a period of years, from the day the temple was burned down to 7 years prior whenever Floris started his governorship. Including seeing the angelic armies in the clouds in 65AD, the face of Jesus in the clouds, the gang warfare and terror. After the temple came down, in 70 AD there was no more Judaism. There are two greek words for this "coming" of the Lord. Parousia and erchomai. Parousia literally means an extended visit, or a presence with someone for an extended period of time. This was the "cloud coming" of Jesus in wrath and judgment against the Jews. The clouds by the way, are all the heavenly witnesses, martyrs, and angels coming along for the ride (to direct Roman Soldiers to execute which individual Jews [sub consciously of course, not via whispering in their ear or by audible voice], or give Jews heart attacks "mens hearts failing them for fear, etc or cause one Jew to slaughter another via the gang warfare going on in Jerusalem after the Jewish rebellion against Rome in 66AD"). You are allowed to fight for God from up in heaven, after you die, (how do you think the apostles were "judging the 12 tribes of Israel". There is much more to do in heaven than play harps and sing Gods praises, and chew the fat w. the saints of old. You get to be a "watcher" and even fight for Jesus, even though you have "entered into His rest") but it has to be by subtle means, no violating the veil, the wall of faith. And it can only be with His permission, and in His timing. But I believe, unlike Ed, that some things prophecied in the Bible are still in our future, Not ALL has happened in our past, thus I am a "partial" preterist.
I believe we are in the millennium now (early 1% of its time) and that most of the millennium is ahead of us. That also in our future; 100k years or so from now, at the end of the millennium, is the Great White Throne Judgment, the marriage supper of the Lamb, the gates of hell shall not prevail against the church, but that wont be evident till towards the end of the millennium, when the leaven (of Christianity) has leavened the whole lump of humanity, Matt 13:33. Then the lion will lay down with the lamb, the child will play by the adders hole, and men will beat their swords into plow shares and study war no more. But since we are at the start of the millennium now, you should expect life to look a lot like the great Trib. Americans arent suffering tribulation yet (2024) because we are in bed with the devil (Zionists and Talmudists). We give false Israel EVERYTHING she wants. When Israel says "Jump" our politicians (bought and paid for or blackmailed by the Mossad) say "how high"? But the rest of the world has more persecution than we, especially Gaza, Christians in some Muslim countries, house church Christians in Communist China, African Christians, etc. Therefore, you can assume that American Christians will be those "lightly esteemed" for all eternity in heaven. Our country was "the great satan" which corrupted the whole earth, ($billions in COVID relief funds given away to foreign countries if they would just play along with the pandemic, and oh by the way, please fly the LGBTQ rainbow flag, as we do at EVERY US embassy) and we American Christians were out boating, going to sporting events, having barbeques, going on cruises, and lining our basements and garages with big screen TVs. Since the Saints differ from each other as "star differs from star in glory" and nearness to Gods throne means more glory for you, then in heaven the American Christians will be the ones way out on the outer edges of the perhiphery of the universe, they will need a telescope to even see the throne of God, and their bright light wont exceed that of a pen light, in heaven. Their mansions of glory will be pup tents. Few to none will ever wear the martyers crown.
Ed thinks the millennium, aka Kingdom of God age, ended in 70 AD, I believe in at least a 100,000 year long millennium, based on the 2nd commandment and Psalm 105:8, a generation in the Bible is 40 years, thousands = at least 2, so 2000 x 40 = God has to show mercy to at least 80,000 years of earth history. And since I am a young earther (the earth is only 6k years old) that leaves some 72k years to burn thru yet, and please dont try to tell me that we are in the LAST DAYS, or END TIMES now. That plainly was in 30 AD per Hebrews 9:26, It CANNOT go on for 2k years.
Ed Stevens says on page 25 of WHAT HAPPENED IN 70 AD The Neronic persecution began in the Summer of 64 and was cut short by the outbreak of the Jewish rebellion in the Spring of 66.
I believe (like Ed does that the Neronic persection was the Great Trib of the Christians [not of the Jews, they had their own seperate one, overlapping this one]) that the cutting short of the Great Trib, was the rapture, not the outbreak of the Jewish rebellion in the spring of 66. Eds logic is flawed here. He thinks the Jews after 66 would have been so busy prepping for the coming Roman war, that they would have slacked off persecuting the Christians. I believe just the opposite. Once the Roman Restraint on the Jews had been taken out of the way, they would have killed Christians on site, whenever and wherever they found them. The death of James the Just is a good example. In AD 62 when Festus died and Ananus II was installed as high priest. The Jews were without a Roman governor for 3 months. Ananus II took advantage of this opportunity to arrest "James and some of his companions"
I differ slightly from Ed in my interpretation of Daniel 9:27. Ed says in Josephus WARS that the daily sacrifices being stopped in the "midst of the week" after 3.5 years of the Romans entering the land under Vespasian, in Josephus WARS book 6. chap 2. ppg 1 that, that is the fulfillment of Daniel 9:27. I say the rapture fulfilled Dan 9:27, and that the daiy sacrifices being stopped fulfilled Daniel 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. But I am still researching all of Daniel 12.
Arguments Against an already happened Rapture.
In the book Final Decade Before the End, by Ed Stevens order off preterist.org He addresses the argument that Christians post 70 AD would have known that the Parousia had taken place. They would have been dancing in the streets and shouting about it from the rooftops – anything but silent about it, or unaware of it! The fact that not a single post-70 Christian mentions the Parousia as a past event is embarrassing and challenging to all other Preterists who do not hold to the rapture view. But that silence is exactly what we rapture preterists would expect to find after the rapture removed them. Clement is a case in point. Not only does Clement fail to claim a past Parousia, he explicitly teaches that it was still future and "about to" happen! How can that be? This really discredits those pre-70 saints who supposedly still remained on earth after the Parousia, especially when we see Papias, Polycarp, and Ignatius teaching that the Parousia was still future (AD 110). If any of those pre- 70 saints were still around after experiencing the Parousia, why didn't they speak up and set the record straight with Papias, Polycarp, and Ignatius? Their silence about what they had just experienced at the Parousia totally discredits their Christian faithfulness – OR even worse, it proves that the Parousia really did not occur after all, and that they were silent because they were embarrassed about the failure of Jesus’ promise to return in their lifetime. But that would mean that Jesus and the apostles were false prophets when they predicted His return in their lifetime. Obviously, neither of these two scenarios is acceptable to futurists or preterists. Those true Christians could not have been silent about the Parousia afterwards if they were still on earth. Their silence discredits them, or proves that the Parousia did not occur. But the promised Parousia could not fail to occur. That would falsify the faith of ALL Christians, including Futurists. So there is a lot at stake here for ALL Christians, and all preterists, not just the rapture preterists. And it is the rapture view which rescues both futurists and preterists from the jaws of the liberal and atheistic critics who seek to overthrow our faith by pointing out the supposed failure of Christ to return in that first century generation as He said He would. The rapture explains why there were no true Christians right after AD 70 talking about what they had just seen, heard and experienced at the Rapture.
The concept of an Apostolic Canon is probably new for most of us. It is essentially the idea that all the NT writings were written, collected, and certified as authoritative by the apostles before they passed from the earthly scene. The preterist version of that theory goes even further to assert that this process of apostolic canonization was completed BEFORE AD 70. This is not a totally new idea. It has been around since the first century, and several evangelical conservative theologians who are futurists espouse most of it in one form or another. Ernest L. Martin and Norman Geisler are examples. Ernest Martin even uses the term "Apostolic Canonization" to label his view.
per Revelation 6:11 ... until the number of their fellow servants and their brethren who were to be killed even as they had been, would be completed also.
Just like in Romans 11, here in Dan 9 & 12 the term "thy people", changes meaning. You have to use systematic theology to keep the meaning straight. You cant just depend on greek & hebrew, nor upon grammer (who does that pro noun point to last), etc. Consider who are "thy people" per angel Gabriel to Daniel. Well Daniel was both a Jew and a Christian (follower of the messiah who would come). Thus Daniel was a saved, man of God, i.e. a born again Christian (even though he might not have had the full in dwelling of the H.S. as no one did, in the Old Testament, per all the OT prophicies that say "I will write my laws on their hearts and I shall dwell among them). Daniel knew about Jeremiahs prophecy of 70 years, and that it was ending, so he was asking God about what should the Jews, his nation or ethnic people do next. But Gabriel re-directs Daniels priorities. He should be more concerned about the fate of the elect, i.e. the Christians, than about the apostate Jewish Nation. Thus Gabriel speaks of both in Daniel 12. Just as Paul said "I could wish myself accursed for the sake of my people (if it would save my people), so Daniel probably has an equal unhealthy priority with his patriotism, just like many Americans today worry about the fate of their nation, now in 2024 when God would have them stay their minds on the elect getting thru this "valley of the shadow of death" and the opportunities for Christianity waiting on the other side of our crash, invasion, and impending suffering here in America, for all of our regime changes, assassinations, wars to enrich the Jews, etc. as God says "give back to her (America) double of what she gave to others".
And from the time וּמֵעֵת֙ (ū·mê·‘êṯ) Conjunctive waw, Preposition-m | Noun - common singular Strong's 6256: Time, now, when the daily [sacrifice] הַתָּמִ֔יד (hat·tā·mîḏ)
Article | Adverb Strong's 8548: Continuance, constant, ellipt, the regular, sacrifice
is abolished
Now, the objection will naturally be raised “if the rapture happened back in 66 AD, why didn’t we hear about it today? How come no First Century Christians wrote about it happening? How come no Jewish Author, or Roman secular historian has reported it? It should have been front page news in all the local press of the day, Jewish and Roman. OR would it?
Answer: The good guys were all either gone (raptured) or the good unbelievers were too afraid to write about it, and the bad guys suppressed the truth in un-righteousness.
Ask yourself this. Rome knew about this miracle worker named Jesus who could heal on command, even raise people from the dead. A Roman centurion even went to Jesus to get his servant healed in Matt 8:8 “The centurion answered and said, “Lord, I am not worthy that You should come under my roof. But only speak a word, and my servant will be healed.”
Yet where does Jesus appear in any of the writings of Tacitus, Suetonius, Dio Cassius (Lucius); Velleius Paterculus etc. This guy is the only guy in history that resurrected himself from the dead, whose EVERY prophecy came true, even raised people from the dead, and yet because Rome crucified Him, they were too embarrassed to write about Him. Do you think they are going to faithfully report the Rapture?
What would that report look like?
“Last Thursday Night, several hundred thousand Christians, all of whom we were planning on arresting, and putting to death, upon orders from Nero, just disappeared. We dont know if they somehow got organized and deported themselves out of the Roman Empire, or if the Jews killed them off, or if they just went into hiding in the hills, but we are not crazy enough to say that a prophecy by the Apostle Paul, whom we beheaded, came true, and all these Christians just floated away into the air.
What Roman reporter or historian would write that, and still expect to keep his job, or his credibility intact. Since the rapture was an un-confirmed fact (no-one knew where these people went, The Romans didn’t even know if all the escapees were Christians, since who is going to confirm that? If you knew someone was a Christian and didn’t report them to the authorities, you became an accomplice yourself.) Since the Rapture suffers from these 2 failings in verification, what Roman News Reporter is going to write on it? ]
So nobody is coming forward and admitting that they knew of Christians who floated away. These missing persons might still turn up, when they come out of hiding, in the hills, so why should I write about it, were I a Roman historian?
It is worse, if you are a Jewish reporter or historian. We Jews are in the process of persecuting those Christians to death, now that we have rebelled against Rome and have thrown off the Roman yoke. It is 66 AD, and all Judea is arming themselves, preparing for the coming war against Vespasian.
We report facts that help our cause, and suppress the rest.
When Jesus walked the earth, and performed all His miracles, did we report that in our newspapers, or histories? Heavens no. Why glorify that deceiver Jesus, by reporting all His miracles. That would cause more Jews to flock to Him, and become His followers. When we got Jesus crucified, by the Romans and per
Matt 27:50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
54 Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God.
Was this news worthy? Oh Yea, never happened before in History.
Did we faithfully report all this? Heavens no, why give glory to that deceiver called Jesus, why contribute to His following, and make more problems for ourselves. We suppressed those truths in unrighteousness.
The official policy that has come down from the Sanhedrin, is to poo-poo all the miracles of Jesus. Jesus is nothing, His movement is a tiny flash in the pan, that will soon go away.
Did He raise Lazarus from the dead? Not if we can bury that story forever,
John 12: 9 Much people of the Jews therefore knew that he was there: and they came not for Jesus' sake only, but that they might see Lazarus also, whom he had raised from the dead.
10 But the chief priests consulted that they might put Lazarus also to death;
11 Because that by reason of him many of the Jews went away, and believed on Jesus.
Did Jesus resurrect Himself from the grave? Not if we can bury that story.
Matt 28:11 Now when they were going, behold, some of the watch came into the city, and shewed unto the chief priests all the things that were done.
12 And when they were assembled with the elders, and had taken counsel, they gave large money unto the soldiers,
13 Saying, Say ye, His disciples came by night, and stole him away while we slept.
14 And if this come to the governor's ears, we will persuade him, and secure you.
15 So they took the money, and did as they were taught: and this saying is commonly reported among the Jews until this day.
John 12:
37 But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him:
38 That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed?
39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,
40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.
41 These things said Esaias, when he saw his glory, and spake of him.
42 Nevertheless among the chief rulers also many believed on him; but because of the Pharisees they did not confess him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue:
43 For they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God.
So, now, if we didn’t report any of these things in our Talmud or Mishna, do you think we are going to faithfully report some RAPTURE. Another prophecy fulfilled? Heavens no, we are going to bury that too. Suppressing the truth in unrighteousness. Besides that, like the Romans, we didn’t actually SEE these people float away. All we know is that hundreds of thousands of them have turned up missing. Probably the Romans got them. They might come out of the hills, next week, from their hiding places. Then my report of them floating away would make me the laughing stock of the year.
Even Josephus, under the protection and provision of Vespasian and Titus, thus safe from Jewish retribution, (at age 38 or so) never mentions Jesus, in his WARS OF THE JEWS, which covered the same time period of Jesus Life and of the miracles done by the Apostles. That would have been the time to mention the coming of the messiah, yet Josephus is silent. Only after Josephus converts to Christianity (age 63 or so) when he is writing his ANTIQUITIES, does he show Christian acknowledgments. And then, but mildly.
(18th book of Antiquities, chapter 3, section 3, p 379)
3. Now, there was about this time, Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man, for he was a doer of wonderful works,—a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews, and many of the Gentiles.
He was [the] Christ; and when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him, for he appeared to them alive again the third day, as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him; and the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day.
Now how about the Christians? Are they going to write about the Rapture? Well all the TRUE Christians got raptured out of here, they aren’t going to write about it. The ones left behind may be too ashamed to report about their own rejection by the Lord.
If friends and family members were bold enough to write about the disappearance of a Christian friend of theirs, such a document would immediately put you in jeopardy of getting arrested by the Romans (you knew of a Christian and you didn’t report him to the authorities) or it would have gotten you persecuted by the Jews.
Did you actually see someone float away, if so, it was another miracle of Jesus’ that they dont want getting out. If all you know is such and such disappeared, than well, maybe the Romans came and got him by night, or maybe the Jews sent an assassin. Dont go claiming any Rapture, if you didn’t actually see floating bodies and hear a trumpet. You back slidden nominal Christians.
If they got raptured with their clothes on, then all you have is a missing persons report. If they left a pile of clothes back on earth, at the spot where they got raptured, (per “Left Behind” series, x Tim Lahaye) now you have an anomaly, a story you can compare with others, who might be reluctant to tell you their story, since having their name published about, puts them at risk of Roman and Jewish persecution for being an accomplice.
Assuming that the Rapture happened in 66 AD has several implications.
1) John must have finished Revelation prior to 66 AD, unless God made an exception and left John on the earth to accomplish his special mission;
2) all the books of the Bible were finished prior to 66AD (because there weren't any Apostles around to write any more books nor give their stamp of Apostolic Cannonicity to such books if written by non apostles);
3) People continued getting saved, even after the Rapture, but were laying low, till the Great Trib ended. God raised up some to be Elders, Preachers, Pastors, etc, to form churches, safeguard the canon, and continue with the great commission, though most Christians may not have become converted till after 70 AD.
There was a 3.5 year period on the earth when there were very few Christians, i.e. from mid 66 AD (the rapture) till after the death of Nero June 68 AD. and after word got around that there is no need to continue to try to please Nero, he is dead, so ease off persecuting the Christians.
This may explain all the weird theories and heresies that the early church fathers fell into. They lacked mature leadership, because the Great Trib and the Rapture wiped out all mature leadership.
Here is another reason why there would be no record of the rapture having happened. When Jesus said Mt 25:15-18 Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place ... then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains. Whoever is on the housetop must not go down to get the things out, that are in his house. Whoever is in the field must not turn back to get his cloak.
You as a first century Christian, knowing of these words, you have to decide if you are going to wait till the last minute, till it is too late to save your belongings along with your life, as you flee in haste to the hills, or will you move out now, sell your land, your house, and be a prepper in the hills, storing up food, tools and weapons to survive off the radar, having disappeared from public view, or go to Pella.
If most of the Christians escaped the 70 AD siege of Jerusalem because they heeded Jesus words (as tradition holds) then who is going to be around to witness and report on a bunch of Christians that got raptured out of the hills of Judea? They left civilization long ago and went into hiding, to escape the Jewish then the Roman persecution.
The ones that stayed behind hid their Christianity and started worshiping in the Catacombs. Who is going to report on their disappearance if they are closet Christians or are already gone to the hills?
When can the first century Christians expect to have to flee to the hills? Mt 24:34 Truly I say to you, THIS generation
(a generation in the Bible is 40 years, these words were spoken by Jesus in 30 AD, so it had to happen prior to 70 AD) will not pass away until all these things take place. Heaven
(political and religious rulers and power structures, the very covenant with God) and earth
(that which is governed by the heavens, and is fruit bearing [[supposed to be]] i.e. the Jewish people, as the covenant people of God, the chosen) will pass away, but My words will not pass away.
Never-the-less, there will be some instances where unbelievers are in the proximity of real Christians when the rapture happens, and immediately noticed their vacancy see Mt 24:40 Then there will be two men in the field, one will be taken and one will be left. 41 Two women will be grinding at the mill, one will be taken and the other one will be left.
Now that is something to write about! or is it? Suppose you write about it. In your diary, suppose the Romans get a hold of your diary. If you linked your co-worker's disappearance with his Christianity, The Romans would have a case against you, why didn't you report his Christianity? Now you say he has just disappeared. Well maybe he has, and maybe you are really hiding him from us to protect him and you invented this disappearance story so we Romans would not come looking.'
We are going to come looking anyway, and we will search thoroughly thru everything you have, your attic, your basement, your barn, your woods, trying to find the secret place where you are hiding that Christian, and if you dont talk, and show us where he is, we will get rough with you to beat it out of you. So, yea, go ahead and write it down that your christian co-worker disappeared, run your mouth about it, tell your family friends and neighbors, so we can pay you a visit sooner rather than later.
Also Ed says on page 84 of Final-Decade-Stevens.pdf "Paul, John, and Peter were killed in the Neronic persecution (late AD 64)"
On 14 April 70, during Passover, Titus laid siege to Jerusalem. https://www.livius.org/articles/concept/roman-jewish-wars/roman-jewish-wars-4/
If you search the internet, you will get various dates for the destruction of the Jewish temple in 70 AD. For example https://www.britannica.com/event/First-Jewish-Revolt says: On the 9th of the month of Av (August 29) in ad 70, Jerusalem fell; the Temple was burned, and the Jewish state collapsed, although the fortress of Masada was not conquered by the Roman general Flavius Silva until April 73.
But, let us take a closer look at history to get a more appropriate date:
Matthew 24:1 Jesus came out from the temple and was going away when His disciples came up to point out the temple buildings to Him. 24:2 And He said to them, “Do you not see all these things? Truly I say to you, not one stone here will be left upon another, which will not be torn down.”
That was fulfilled by the Roman Army under Titus in 70 AD.
Josephus is clear: both Temples were destroyed on the 10th of Ab (our August)
Yet it is Jewish tradition even down to today (2023) to celebrate (with a fast, i.e. mourning) that event on the 9th of Ab, why?
Because in both cases Solomons temple and Herods temple, the fires were started on the 7th and the building was leveled on the 10th, (it took that long to burn down the pinnacle and also the cloisters), so rather than have to fast and mourn for 4 days, it is rounded off to the 9th. A compromise date, just like Christians celebrate Christmas on Dec 25th, even though we all know Jesus probably was not actually born on that date.
[The Mishnah (Ta'anit, iv. 4) speaks of five national misfortunes that occurred on the Ninth of Ab, the first one being that night "when the Israelites were doomed to stay in the wilderness" for forty years (Num. xiv. 1 et seq.), the second and third the destruction of Jerusalem under Nebuchadnezzar and Titus, the fourth the fall of Bethar ( in the war of Bar Kokba, when the fall of the fortress of Bethar, in 135, sealed the fate of the Jewish nation forever.), and the fifth misfortune was the drawing of the plow over the Holy City and the Temple a year later, in order to turn the place into a Roman colony (compare Jerome, Zech. viii. 11). Henceforth the Ninth of Ab was like the Day of Atonement, the national fast-day "beginning with the evening before, no enjoyment whatever, whether in the way of eating and drinking or of bathing and anointing, being permitted from evening to evening. Even the study of the Law was to be confined to matters of a sad character (Ta'anit, 30a), nor should any work be done on that day." "He who does work on the Ninth of Ab," says Akiba, "will see no blessing in it" (Ta'anit, 30b).] https://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/110-ab-ninth-day-of
The destruction of Solomons Temple is described in 2 Kings 25 and Jeremiah 52, which give contradictory dates for the Temple’s destruction, and the 9th of Av is not one of the dates: So, we Christians assume, that the immediate firing of the temple occurred on the 7th, but was not completed till the 10th. And to stay in compliance with Josephus, we just claim the 10th.
II Kings 25:8 (KJV) And in the fifth month, on the seventh day of the month, which is the nineteenth year of king Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon, came Nebuzaradan, captain of the guard, a servant of the king of Babylon, unto Jerusalem: 25:9 And he burnt the house of the LORD, and the king's house, and all the houses of Jerusalem, and every great man's house burnt he with fire. 25:10 And all the army of the Chaldees, that were with the captain of the guard, brake down the walls of Jerusalem round about. 25:11 Now the rest of the people that were left in the city, and the fugitives that fell away to the king of Babylon, with the remnant of the multitude, did Nebuzaradan the captain of the guard carry away. 25:12 But the captain of the guard left of the poor of the land to be vinedressers and husbandmen.
Jeremiah 52:12 (Geneva version) Now in the fifth month in the tenth day of the month (which was the nineteenth year of ye King Nebuchad-nezzar King of Babel) came Nebuzar-adan chief steward which stood before the king of Babel in Jerusalem, 52:13 And burnt the House of the Lord, and the King’s house, and all the houses of Jerusalem, and all the great houses burnt he with fire. 52:14 And all the army of the Chaldeans that were with the chief steward, brake down all ye walls of Jerusalem round about. 52:15 Then Nebuzar-adan the chief steward carried away captive certain of the poor of the people, and the residue of the people that remained in the city, and those that were fled, and fallen to the king of Babel, with the rest of the multitude. 52:16 But Nebuzar-adan the chief steward left certain of the poor of the land, to dress the vines, and to till the land.
Josephus Wars of the Jews x Whiston; page 580, Book 6 Chapter 4 Section 5. So Titus retired into the tower of Antonia, and resolved to storm the temple the next day, early in the morning, with his whole army, and to encamp round about the holy house. But as for that house, God had, for certain, long ago doomed it to the fire; and now that fatal day was come, according to the revolution of ages; it was the tenth day of the month Lous (Syro-Macedonian calendar), [Ab,] (Jewish Calendar) upon which it was formerly burnt by the king of Babylon; although these flames took their rise from the Jews themselves, and were occasioned by them;
Josephus Wars of the Jews x Whiston; p 580 Book 6 Chapter 4 Section 2
This fire prevailed during that day (Note: let us assume the 7th of the month, when the Temple fire started) and the next also (Note: that would be the 8th of the month); for the soldiers were not able to burn all the Cloisters that were round about together at one time, but only by pieces. 3. But then on the next day, (Note: the 9th of the month) Titus commanded part of his army to quench the fire, and to make a road for the more easy marching up of the legions, while he himself gathered the commanders together. ... after these came together all the rest of the procurators and tribunes. Titus proposed to these that they should give him their advice what should be done about the holy house. Now, some of these thought it would be the best way to act according to the rules of war, [and demolish it ;] because the Jews would never leave off rebelling while that house was standing; at which house it was that they used to get all together. Others of them were of opinion, that in case the Jews would leave it, and none of them would lay their arms up in it, he might save it ; but that in case they got upon it, and fought any more, he might burn it; because it must then be looked upon not as a holy house, but as a citadel : and that the impiety of burning it would then belong to those that forced this to be done, and not to them.
Josephus Wars of the Jews x Whiston; p 580 Book 6 Chapter 4 Section 2
But Titus said, that “although the Jews should get upon that holy house, and fight us thence, yet ought we' not to revenge ourselves on things that are inanimate, instead of the men themselves; ” and that he was not in any case for burning down so vast a, work as that was, because this would be a mischief to the Romans themselves, as it would be an ornament to their government while it continued.
Note: how great an ornament? AKA why Titus war so reluctant to tear the temple down.
Josephus Wars book 5 chap 5 section 6 page 555 Whiston edition
6. Now the outward face of the temple in its front wanted nothing that was likely to surprise either men’s minds or their eyes : for it was co- vered all over with plates of gold of great weight, and, at the first rising of the sun, reflected back a very fiery splendour, and made those who forced themselves to look upon it to turn their eyes away, just as they would have done at the sun’s own rays. But this temple appeared to strangers, when they were at a distance, like a mountain covered with snow; for, as to those parts of it that were not gilt, they were exceeding white. On its top it had spikes with sharp points, to prevent any pollution of it by birds sitting upon it. Of its stones, some of them were forty-five cubits in length, five in height, and six in breadth.
Now back to Josephus Wars of the Jews x Whiston; p 580 Book 6 Chapter 4 Section 2
So Fronto, and Alexander, and Cerealis, grew bold upon that declaration, and agreed to the opinion of Titus. Then was this assembly dissolved, when Titus had given orders to the commanders that the rest of their forces should lie still ; but that they should make use of such as were most courageous in this attack. So he commanded that the chosen men that were taken out of the cohorts should make their way through the ruins and quench the fire.
Note: It was Gods will to have the temple burnt down, thus destroying the greatest idol of the age, leaving room for only the true invisible temple, of Christs Body. Matthew 22:7 But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city.
and see Matthew 24:1 ... His disciples came up to point out the temple buildings to Him. 24:2 And He said to them, “Do you not see all these things? Truly I say to you, not one stone here will be left upon another, which will not be torn down.”
But here it seems Gods will is being thwarted by Roman Charity, fear of impiety, and preservation of beauty.
What is a God to do? Even His Army does not want to burn down the beautiful Temple.
So it looks like this will never happen: But, here come the Jews to the rescue. They will precipitate Gods will. They will manage to get the Temple burnt down.
The Rest of the Story
Josephus Wars of the Jews x Whiston; p 584 Book 6 Chapter 6 Section 2
Titus to the Jews; "When I came near your temple I again departed from the laws of war, and exhorted you to spare your own sanctuary, and to preserve your holy house to yourselves. I allowed you a quiet exit out of it, and security for your preservation; nay, if you had a mind, I gave you leave to fight in another place. Yet have you still despised every one of my proposals, and have set fire to your holy house with your own hands."
Note: Even though Titus had commanded his men to put the temple fires out, he puts the blame on the burning of the temple on the Jews, because he offered multiple times to move the war away from the temple, to preserve it, but the Jews would not leave their holy house, assuming that God would protect it.
WARS-B6-C4-ppg-5 p. 580 but these Romans put the Jews to flight, and proceeded as far as the holy house itself. At which time one of the soldiers, without staying for any orders, and without any concern or dread upon him at so great an undertaking, and being hurried on by a certain divine fury, snatched somewhat out of the materials that were on fire, and being lifted up by another soldier, he set fire to a golden window, through which there was a passage to the rooms that were round about the holy house, on the north side of it. As the flames went upward the Jews made a great clamour, such as so mighty an affliction required, and ran together to prevent it; and now they spared not their lives any longer, nor suffered anything to restrain their force, since that holy house was perishing, for whose sake it was that they kept such a guard about it.
WARS-B6-C4-ppg-6 p. 580 And now a certain person came running to Titus, and told him of this fire, as he was resting himself in his tent after the last battle ; whereupon he rose up in great haste, and as he was, ran to the holy house, in order to have a stop put to the fire; note: but the soldiers were in such a frenzy, they could no longer be restrained by Titus.
To Be Continued.